Otunba Gbenga Daniel: Not Many People Have Taken the Bull by the Horn Like Tinubu Did

Former Ogun State governor and senator representing Ogun East Senatorial District, Otunba Gbenga Daniel in this interview with THISDAY defends President Bola Tinubu’s economic reforms, reflects on his legacy, assesses Dapo Abiodun’s leadership, and explains why he believes Nigerians should back Tinubu again at the polls

How has the journey been, politically?

It all started by our appreciation of our state. Probably because we all lived in Lagos, we had a lot of exposure. We looked at developments in some of those conditions, and we felt that our state wasn’t there despite the fact that we have been lucky to have probably one of the most, or most of the prominent citizens from this part of the country. We thought why is it like this? Pa Ayo Adebanjo, Pa Abraham Adesanya and many others, who were leading the South-west, were all from Ogun State. We didn’t see commensurate development. We looked at a state like Lagos, all the people who are making waves, most of them are also from Ogun State. So, something appeared to be missing. And that’s why we thought this is a giant asleep and we must go and wake it up. That’s how it all started. Decades after, one can only feel quite excited about the dreams we had. I wrote a book at that time about the land of my dreams. That is not to apportion blame because people usually say you can only give what you have, but you can only give to the extent of your appreciation and understanding. Most people who came from here, they would just come whether to bury their dead. And once they finish burying, they are back in Lagos. We thought that we could turn that around. And I think that looking at the situation 30 years later, Ogun State has been turned around. I believe that in all the indices that you can mention, the state has been significantly turned around. Of course, I didn’t do all the turning around, other people did their own bits. But I can say that I created that foundation. And I’m saying this with a sense of humility and appreciation. I remember that then I had all sorts of advice. “OGD, you can’t do everything. If it is the road you want to do, just concentrate on the road. If it is rural legislation you want to do, concentrate on rural legislation. If it is healthcare you want to concentrate on, concentrate on healthcare.” There was no government before us, to a large extent, who faced all issues in the state squarely without leaving anything behind, whether you’re talking in terms of sport, education, rural or tourism development. We thought that the state should be in a hurry to develop. I must say that it was a lot of work, 24/7 mostly.

Why should Nigerians vote APC in 2027?

For the avoidance of doubt, in President Bola Tinubu, we have a highly intelligent president who also knows Nigeria so well, probably because he has paid his dues over the years. I also, without any doubt, must also say that in terms of the economic rediscovery of this country, there isn’t probably anyone in the horizon who can say that he could have done it better. I also want to say that in terms of the boldness, the courage, there are also not many people who have taken the bull by the horn the way he did. I am not saying this because I want to flatter you. When we got into the 10th Senate, part of the resolution of the ninth Senate was that fuel subsidy should be removed. It was gone. So it was like a law. No more fuel subsidy. While we were working for the Atiku campaign, and you know I was very active in that, part of his blueprint was that for this country to move forward, fuel subsidy must go. And not only that, the Petroleum Industry Bill, in terms of the petroleum reform, also recommended that subsidy be removed. Don’t also forget that while I was working for the Atiku campaign, Peter Obi was the vice president. And his position also has been that we cannot continue to sustain fuel subsidy. Anybody who is anybody in terms of economic knowledge and management has come to the conclusion that it is not sustainable. But nobody had the political will to say that “here we are, let us begin again,” which was what he demonstrated on his first day. Expectedly, it came with a lot of hues and cries because it’s a new order, he’s changed the status quo. Asiwaju saw this and felt that the first thing to do was put a stop to this. That naturally affected both the rich and the poor, especially the people who are, in quotes, stealing the wealth, the mafia, who are chopping from this subsidy. So they are fighting. Unfortunately, the poor also have to suffer because, of course, it has led to adjustment in the price of fuel and so on and so forth. It’s unfortunate, but for me it is also inevitable. 

And what I think the president has also done is to now find ways of ameliorating, and that’s why you find all these social initiatives that are going on. But more than anything else, we have been one of the people who have been shouting that this sense of all powers in the centre should be brought back to the sub-nationals. And all of a sudden, there is virtually no state government that has not got probably three times or four times more than it used to have. The loss has now been put in the hands of the states and federal. It is not really a loss. It’s just that it’s a well distribution. And if properly done, the masses of the people should be able to check. You and I complained bitterly about the price of rice and dollars. However, in the last one year, we have seen a slow and gradual recovery. In the last one year, the indices are improving whether in inflation rate and so on and so forth. To that extent, the president got it right. Don’t let us talk about what has been going on in the last one or two weeks on the price of fuel, that is as a result of the war. And in a war environment, these things happen. It happened during the Gulf War, but beyond that we can see a gradual recovery in the system and more money in the hands of the subnationals. One of the richest men in Nigeria made a statement that he sees that the Naira is going to appreciate to over a thousand. I don’t want to mention names, but you know when people like that talk, they’re in the banks, they’re everywhere, they see what’s happening, they know what they’re talking about. I am even told that the continuous maintenance of the Naira at this stable rate is not because it couldn’t have appreciated. Because I say, okay, let it appreciate, that’s what we’re waiting for. But we now have a problem, people have stock. If you’ve gone to the bank to borrow money, for instance, to buy your goods, and you’ve paid $1,500, $1,600 to get your goods out there, you still have not sold. People are saying the price is too high. All of a sudden, the thing goes down to $1,000. So it means all of you have gone bankrupt already. So because of that, I’m told that we are the ones who are now trying to make sure that the process is slow and gradual, so that people who have stock, dispose of their stock so they don’t become bankrupt. So that is the policy that’s in the interest of the people. But if we don’t have people to explain it to them properly, we won’t know what’s happening. But if we allow the Naira to float, it’s clear that there is recovery, slow and gradual recovery. Whether you want to say that President Tinubu is lucky or not is a different story. But something is happening within the solid minerals industry that must not go unnoticed. Whether we like it or not, there has been a solid minerals ministry before. I don’t know whether the fortune smiling on Nigeria through him is because of the deliberate policy, but all of a sudden, Nigeria has started exporting more. And this single product economy, which has been a problem in the last few years, is now giving way that we now have a few other things that are not oil to export. That also has the tendency to stabilise the nation because once upon a time, people would say it is from my own wealth that your place is being developed. But now, those other people can now boast. I’m told that the entire Ilesa and Ijebu-Ode are standing on gold. I’m told that Zamfara is standing on lithium or gold and so on and so forth. All those things that some people are feeling in the past, that oh, we are the ones producing the wealth and the development, it’s no longer going to be so very soon. I think one way or the other, either as a result of deliberate policy or because it’s in the right place at the right time, good fortune is smiling on this country under President Bola Tinubu. I think it could be a combination of everything.

What was your relationship with all these people? Are you going to fight for your senatorial seat or relinquish it? And the current government wanted to demolish some of your properties.

All of these depend on the perception of the various individuals to the political process. I established earlier that my appreciation of our responsibility is very clear to me. In anything you do, the interest of the masses must come first. Your own personal interest becomes second. Let us look at the properties that you have spoken about. You would have noticed that I’ve not said anything till today. I think our duty as leaders is to be very responsive and responsible to the appreciation and expectation of the people. That is why you have not seen me make any fuss. If you do anything, rather than you see me fight, I just do what I am supposed to do. Go to court and try to see whether things can be resolved in court. I think I have gone through 30 different court cases against this government and the one before it, and I haven’t lost one. Even if we win, we don’t celebrate it because there was no issue ab initio. We can therefore place some of those things in the realms of politics. I have said to people that I have no issues with any one of them whatsoever. Ibikunle was my senator. We ran together in PDP. The only difference was that he felt that he could not wait for me to finish. He wants to be the governor after my first term. So even before I was sworn-in, he started campaigning. And it went on such that he contested against me in 2007. To God be the glory, I won the election. He went on fighting. And then God gave me victory in 2011. I have said to people that for me, Ibikunle is what I call Ajagungbade, somebody who fought and won the crown. I had no direct contribution to his election. In his own perception, he also felt that I was part of the reason why he didn’t become governor earlier. He had his own way of doing things. He didn’t think I was his friend. And so when he had the opportunity, he then began to fight me, I’ll say unfairly. But at the end of the day, you probably will have heard that, well, finally, we resolved. I’m the one that has been wounded. But the important thing, like I’ve said, I’ve done analysis for you of how life is. I think I’m a lucky man. I’m still alive in spite of all of that.

The current governor (Dapo Abiodun) will not be able to deny that I made contributions to his election. His own case is a bit different because I can say that without people like us and the grace of God, he probably wouldn’t have been governor. So, that one owes us. The minimum he can do for us is to give us respect, which he has chosen not to do. For whatever reasons he may have, that doesn’t erase history. At the end of the month, four of my books: ‘Daniel in the Lion’s Den’, ‘My March Through the Courts’ will be released. Those are specific, clear statements of history which were set, put in for the records. The current governor now has less than two years to go. For me, my own appreciation is that a number of people in positions of authority get carried away. When I was governor, people had different views of how I played. But I can tell you a few little things. I refuse to answer the title of ‘executive governor.’ Because I feel that being governor is already executive. So when you keep rambling on ‘executive’, what is it all about?

The responsibility constitutionally for me as a governor is to look at how you can help the good, the bad, the rich, the not so rich, the poor. You have responsibility to all of them. Who didn’t fight me when I was governor? All sorts of spurious allegations. Did you hear me do anything to any one of them? If it’s too much, I would go to court. I did eight years as governor. He’s now in the seventh year. They can now compare seven years of OGD with seven years of our current governor. People can compare. And they can make their own decisions from there.

 Did you see this crisis coming in the PDP since you jumped?

I didn’t jump. First, I have only been part of what we call the progressives and don’t also forget I was part of the AD-Afenifere. Why I went to PDP is because we saw potential that could be developed, and we didn’t see an opportunity within the framework of the party at that time to do it because of the way the party was set up. Not anybody’s fault. And I can’t also blame them because what they are doing or what they have done is within the framework of their understanding. Whether they are right or wrong, it is posterity that can finally decide that, but the party felt that “Gbenga, it’s not your turn yet.” So the road was closed. And I had a large number of young, articulate, vibrant, energetic people who had a dream about what we could do with Ogun State beyond what was going on. So that was the impetus that actually led us into moving. And don’t also forget, I’m one of the people who said, while we were in PDP, we hadn’t left Afenifere. Ideologically, we didn’t have any issue. You’ll recall that while in PDP, I was close to becoming the National Chairman of the party. I contested in the election and it was very clear that I was close to victory. And I was shocked, I don’t want to mention names. Somebody woke up one day and said, “Hey, you people, if you hand over this party to OGD, you are handing it over to … Don’t mind what’s going on. If you give the PDP to OGD, you are more or less….” And the man who actually said it now is actually one of the strong men in the current government. So, they pulled all their elders to please persuade me to step down. I had to step down in the morning without a fight. Thereafter, Atiku approached me to come and lead his campaign, which I did without any regrets. Even while I was working for Atiku, he knew that I’m Tinubu’s person. When I ran Atiku’s campaign then, it was against Buhari for the presidential election. Both of them were Fulani. In my own opinion, one is a more liberal Fulani than the other. I still believe that Atiku is a more liberal Fulani than Buhari.

Buhari can be described as some kind of fundamentalist. Atiku married from Malaysia, he lived his life in Lagos. Yes, but he’s still a Fulani. And at the end of that experiment, I delivered, he took the ticket and the party decided they wanted to enlarge the campaign and all of that. That’s fine. I’ve done my bit. Then, it was clear that Asiwaju was coming. If you remember the story, Tinubu was supposed to be the VP to Buhari. It didn’t happen. But I was politically intelligent enough to know that Asiwaju was coming. Then the unexpected happened in Ogun PDP, where I was. We were supporting Ladi Adebutu for governor, but he didn’t get the ticket. The party gave him the ticket; the court gave Kashamu the ticket. INEC said whatever the court said we must do. So, before you could say anything, Kashamu became the governorship candidate of the PDP. While that was going on, Asiwaju called me and said, “Have you read …?” And of course, you know that he had issues with his bosom friend, who was the outgoing governor. And so, once Asiwaju stepped in, the leaders of the community also came to me. So, before I knew what was happening, I had to provide some support for Dapo to become governor. Dapo having become governor, our people now came to me and said, “OGD, you can’t ask us to go and vote for a government that wins. Are you going to leave us like a sheep without a shepherd? Whatever you want to do, if you really want to protect our interest, you need to follow us there.” 

Simultaneously, I was also aware that Asiwaju wanted to run. Of course, from where I’m coming from, I’m a Yoruba irredentist. Whatever anybody wants to say, I’m a nationalist, but first and foremost, I am a Yoruba man. And from the kind of battle that we fought together with Asiwaju, the battle of self-determination, emancipation of our people and so on and so forth, it is unthinkable that he would be on a ticket and I would do something else. It is not as if I jumped because I knew something was happening, but if you put it that way, it’s fair enough. Asiwaju was coming; we’ve had a long relationship. I believe in his politics, I appreciate his strength of character, and I appreciate what he stands for ideologically. It was unthinkable for me to do any other thing.

What are the qualities you expect from the next government of Ogun State? And what is your say about zoning in the state?

The current governor here is lucky because he has no opposition except the crisis he wants to self-inflict. All the former governors are in APC. The opposition parties are barely alive. And we have a president that most people feel that if you don’t, because of the president, you support this party. All the indices are ticked already that he doesn’t need to create unnecessary problems for himself. You can imagine if the former governors, for instance, two former governors that he doesn’t appear to be working closely with, you can imagine if those governors were in another party. He would understand the meaning of opposition. But because everybody will look at him, what can we do? We are in the same party. We can’t even abuse him. We can’t even do anything to him. As good party people, we have to leave that space. If we take him on, it will be as if we’re also self-destroying the party that we belong to. We also say that all of us are working for Jagaban, it is our duty to make sure that we maintain peace. My own take, therefore, is that the current government in Ogun State has no opposition except self-inflicted and it was based on people surrounding him. I had internal and external opposition. Tough ones.  I also had principalities and powers to contend with. And he has somebody at the point that if you want to take him on, you have to look at, can we take him on? Look at our president there. Is that what we should be doing in the South-west where the president comes from? Those are the things that have created this kind of situation. But I guess he probably thinks that it’s because he’s infallible. I don’t want to pass any comment about him, but at least the facts are there for quite a number of people to see. He is enjoying the goodwill of the president.

I tell you that after I stopped being governor till now, I didn’t do anything that would disrupt the plans of my successors for the interest of the people. So what do we need now? We need a mature person who appreciates that beyond ego and self-consideration, it is now time for us to begin to look at the total combination of some of the things that are supposed to happen. I don’t want to talk about how we lost Dangote Refinery, for instance. So many other things that should not have happened, happened. When I was governor, everybody knew that I was equal in terms of my development. Now, if all of a sudden, somebody has started something that has capacity. Okay, I give kudos to Governor Dapo Abiodun for this one thing, that he continued and finished the airport project that we started. That I will not take away from him even though some people feel he did it because we located it in his backyard. But there are quite a number of other things that I felt that, or my people felt that, these things did not happen because I was no longer there. I was doing free trade zones. I did one free trade zone in Yewaland. The Olokola Free Trade Zone is between us and our neighbours in Ijebuland. That’s Ogun East. The Kajola Free Trade Zone that I also created, got the licence and started in Ifo local government in Egbaland. Those free trade zones are now the fulcrum of the ground today. In fact, I remember when I was fighting for the Ogun Guangdong Free Trade Zone, they said, “You already have two free trade zones, some people don’t have one.” I said, “Please, we are not like Ekiti State. If we have one here, we need to have one here and one here.” That’s how I have three free trade zones. So the next governor we need in Ogun State is somebody who can now say, “Look, this is our state. It is our common patrimony. And whatever we need to do, we need to be even-handed, based on what we have called economic and non-political considerations.” 

The airport was an economic institution, not political. If it were political, it would have been in God knows any other place. The Dangote Refinery was economic, not political. I remember Dangote said it cost him much more money to relocate to Lagos than stay where we already planned for him to stay. Going back to your next question, I think fair is fair, and don’t forget that I, as a person, can be described as one governor that turned around the fortunes of Ogun West. Before my arrival in Government House, the posts of governor and deputy were solely between Ogun East and Ogun Central. When Onabanjo was governor from Ijebu, Soluade was the deputy governor. When Osoba was (Egba) governor, for the first time, Ogunleye was his deputy and the second time around, it was Kaka. So I was the first one who said I wanted to give the number two position to Ogun West, and that’s why I picked Ogun West as my deputy. But beyond that, we also told our people in the West that their biggest problem has been their lack of unity. They are even more heterogeneous within Ogun West. And those are the real issues that current players must look at. There is a saying in Egbaland that two Egba don’t cheat each other. So, when it is critical, they stay together, whether it is Owu, Egba Alake, Oke Ona. The same thing happens in Ogun East. When it is critical, people forget whether they are Ijebu or what have you, they just come together. That doesn’t usually happen in Ogun West. Don’t also forget that in the West, there are really distinct people. There are five local governments. The largest population, which is Ota, is dominated by the Awori. Sometimes, the Awori feel that they are closer to Egba than to Yewa. And don’t also forget that the Awori Traditional Council is part and parcel of the Egba Traditional Council. And Awori, being one local government, is more popular than the four in Yewa put together. And not only that, within that four, there are also divisions. You have people saying they are Egun and some people saying we are the real Yoruba. So, even within those four local governments of Ogun West, there are very strong divisions. It means, therefore, that saying the Ogun West has to be governor is more than just talking.

Between the philosophy of Obafemi Awolowo and what you have seen in politics, vis-a-vis the political economy of it, how would you say we as a people have fared in the absence of Papa Awolowo, using your own experience as a linchpin?

There cannot be any comparison to my own understanding. We must accept without any implication that Chief Awolowo was indeed an enigma. Some say people like that come before their time. He was clear, he was specific, he was deliberate about some of the actions that he took. Without any doubt, everybody agrees that he was a meticulous strategist. Some of those things that he did represent part of the continuity that we have as a people. When I say we as a people, I’m not talking about the people of the South-west, either in terms of education, sport development, health care, employment generation and things like that. He clearly lived probably ahead of his time. And what could we do as followers? We try very hard to ensure that, first and foremost, those legacies of his, some of which were not particularly being concentrated upon are looked at.

I remember, for instance, that my first week in government took me to Odeda Farm Institute. I had read quite a lot about Chief Awolowo. And I understood from what I read that he introduced what they call the Kibbutz system.

This was the Israeli system of farming. And that was part of what Odeda Farm Institute represented. And nobody heard about that institute. It was comatose, having been established in the mid-50s. I went there and I found an asset wasting away. The first thing I said was, “This is such a big expanse of land, where is the GM of this place?” And they said he wasn’t living in Oda, he lived in Abeokuta. That’s how we started. And that was, for instance, the beginning of our own re-enactment of the Awolowo agric revolution. 

We went to Ijebu Igbo, the palm oil institute, and did the same thing. Then we fixed the Kennedy rubber plantation. So I’m saying, therefore, that our first step was to revisit some of the things that Chief Awolowo did, virtually everywhere to bring them back to life. 

I must also confess that, ideologically, I think one can say that I’m quite in tune with Chief Awolowo’s view of democratic socialism, which is life more abundant for the masses of people. I wasn’t a politician before, so I wasn’t in public service. I came from the private sector, but I remember that part of what I usually tell myself is whether this can stand the scrutiny of the masses of people.

How do you feel when you look back at some of the decisions you took and their impact?

Well, as human beings, one cannot claim that all the decisions that one took were correct. But the way I would like to put it is that, first I became a governor, at age 47. By age 55, I had spent eight years. Now at 70, I have 15 years more in terms of experience with what I knew 55 years ago. Definitely, what I would do today may not necessarily be exactly the same as I did at that time. But I have no regrets, because to the best of my knowledge, at that point in time, with the parameters available to me, if I have to do it again, I’ll do exactly the same thing I did. We felt we had a state that was in a hurry to develop.

 How would you describe your governorship experience?

My conclusion is that Nigeria is first, a lucky country. I didn’t know the extent of this luck when I was governor. The resources available in this country are humongous. It is an irony that we are still where we are. But again, there is a popular saying that necessity is the mother of invention. I think what has happened to Nigeria is what’s really happened to the children of rich people. People say that it’s really important to have two, three generations of rich people. So if your father is rich, you’ll be lucky to be rich because your need for achievement is minimised. Everything that you need is there. When you compare that with someone who is not born with a silver spoon, his need for achievement is high. He’s driven for success. And there is a likelihood that he’s going to get more success. Today, unfortunately, most of the children talk about “my dad, my dad, my dad.” Entitlement mentality, they virtually cannot do anything on their own. I have looked at all the people who you can describe as rich today. All, without any exception, will you say that they are from a rich family? The ones that are supposedly from a rich family, you find out that they didn’t wait on their fathers’ wealth. They went all out to conquer space. I look at the Da Rochas of this world, and I can’t see their siblings doing well. So I think that there is something that is problematic about Nigeria. We have oil, there is gold, there is everything that the Western world is looking for here. And so the tendency is that we think since we have everything, we don’t have any need to work. What Nigeria does is fight to share the cake. There is no fight to bake any cake, because we feel that it’s there to be shared. Until that turnaround that there is no cake to share, that is when our countrymen will wake up to the challenge of development. 

The only exception to that is if, per adventure, we have good leadership. And talking about good leadership, I cannot say that without stating, to a large extent, I think we have a good leader in our president, who appears to be clear, knows what he’s doing, determined and he seems to be hitting his objectives in a way that looks like there is already light at the end of the tunnel.

You managed a state with about four zones; Awori, Egba, Egbado, Ijebu. How were you able to manage them?

There is something people also call unity in diversity, or something that creates a competitive environment. What is important is to look at that scenario and turn it into an advantage instead of a disadvantage. I will give you a typical example. Just like you said, in Ekiti, you are homogeneous. In Ekiti, there is also one funny thing there, once you have done something in Ado, all the others are happy, everything is fine. That’s not the same thing here. Once you put it there, the others want the same. That’s what led us to some of the things that we did. For instance, our founding fathers, when they started Olabisi Onabanjo University, they intended it to be a multi-campus institution. And I was told that the decision of the then-government was that the state constituency that gave them the highest number of votes was where the university will be located. And the Ifelodun constituency, which is called Ago Iwoye, gave the greatest number of votes, and, dutifully, it was put there. But in terms of the conceptualisation of that university, it was planned to be a multi-campus. And so, what did I have to do? I started to reactivate the educational blueprint. That was what led to my creating, for instance, the College of Agricultural Sciences in Ayetoro, Yewaland, the College of Technology in Egbaland, the Tai Solarin University of Education in Ijebuland and so on and so forth. This is also the same policy that we activated when we were doing the MKO Abiola Stadium in Abeokuta. And when we had an opportunity to play sports at a broad level, we were able to do other stadiums. We did Ijebu-Ode, Ilaro, Shagamu.

In terms of roads, first, I do not subscribe to the fact that the road infrastructures are depreciating. Second, the expectation of our people, which I think is justified, is that the government can do a lot more than it is doing. Everybody agrees that forever we continue to need more roads, and, you know, once there is population and development, people are moving, so it is a continuous process. And I think what people are saying indirectly is that I can put it vividly for you between 2003, when I became governor to 2011, when I left, the total amount of resources available and it is well documented both in terms of IGR and income from the federal allocation was N330 billion. That was what we used in establishing those things that we have been talking about. This year, our governor announced a budget of N1.6 trillion. I had a meeting with the Minister of Finance about two weeks ago who said our state is one of the few states where there is going to be a budget surplus, which means that despite the fact that they have announced N1.6 trillion as their budget, they are likely to have more than that at the end of this budget year. Now, when we now statistically compare that huge amount, even after a lot of inflation and all that, effectively it means that what we had to utilise in eight years is what is available for them to spend in three months. So, the aspiration is high. The president has also had the opportunity to say, “Look, why are you harassing us in Abuja? We removed the subsidy. The money is in your state. It’s now in the local government. So get your state and local government to work”. I think apart from Lagos, Abuja, Ogun, maybe also Rivers or thereabouts, Delta, we are part of just about five states out of 36 that are now crossing the trillion range. So what the people are therefore saying, which you may call depreciation, is that they think they really need to have value for that.

What is your position on state police and your take on the issue of direct primaries, where the opposition would think it favours mainly the ruling party?

On state police, ideologically, that’s where I am. And if you remember, maybe you didn’t watch the interview of Musa when he was being screened for the position of the Minister of Defence, I asked him those questions. I said “what is your position about what you are facing? Do you think it is banditry or terrorism? Because I think the armed forces are hamstrung. If we decide that it’s terrorism, I think you will be able to do better. What’s your position now that you are going to be minister? And second, what’s your position about state police and community police?” So without mincing words, we had always known that there are pros and cons about everything. But I believe that from the totality of what we’ve had, we need to have state police, community police. We need to take security out of the hands of the Federal Government as much as possible. And let the federal concentrate on bigger issues. But husband and wives are fighting in their village, it is the federal police that mediate or one baale and another baale want to kill themselves. I’m very happy, and I commend the president, that he also has more or less declared and encouraged the National Assembly to go and enact laws to give to this idea of state police. It is an idea whose time had not just come, but it is past. The earlier we do it, the better. 

Well, I guess that the primaries that have been recommended in the Electoral Act, saying that it should be direct or consensus is nothing new. I think what has happened is simply that the indirect ones have been more or less removed from the statute books. And if you look at it properly, if you’re looking at what democracy is all about numbers, you will see that the indirect ones are prone to so much corruption. And that is why the battle for positions in the party is fought, tooth and nail. All you need to become is a delegate. And once you become a delegate, you are now the bastion of corruption because everybody will be coming to throw all sorts of things at you so that you can vote for them. And at the end of the day, the responsibility of government, I mean of selecting who our leaders and rulers will be, is vested in the hands of a few minorities. And not because they are ideologically strong or anything. It’s just because they scramble for the position and the position of themselves to create that, okay, do what you have to do otherwise. Now, the attempt to now say there won’t be direct primaries is, I think, positive development in terms of democratisation. So which means that many more people will decide as against a few caucus people taking a decision. And there is also a caveat to that, that if they can create a consensus, then there will be no need to waste time. The way I look at it is when you want to go and get married and the officiating pastor says, if there is anybody who has anything against this marriage, he should declare so or forever hold his peace. And all it requires for the marriage to be stopped is for one person to raise up his hand so there is no consensus. So I think that it is healthy and I think it’s a step in the right direction. I don’t think it’s favouring any particular political party because the process cuts across all the parties.

Electoral Act

Electoral Act cannot be an agenda for any party. It is a national agenda. I think the issue of transmitting results in real time has been properly dealt with. People who have done that have said it has to be a hybrid because internet penetration is not universal yet in Nigeria. I accept that because, for instance, when you want to go from Makomi to Odiomi, for instance, you can’t reach the place by road. Both of them, in Ijebu waterside, are about 45 minutes by boat. And you may not even get to the destination. Otherwise, you have to manoeuvre. I’ve been there in the course of my campaign. While you’re in those locations, there is no signal. If you get to Odomi, there is no signal. And that has appeared to be a problem. So I think what the question that we were asking ourselves is that, so what then happens when there is no signal? Does it mean that we should cancel or we should disregard the election? So I guess that it is just a hybrid system to take account of the fact that in those locations where there are no signals, there must be a way, a means of getting across the result. I don’t think that it is to favour any particular party.  But in so many locations, until when this movement of exodus from governors started, many of those locations where these things are happening, also are locations that are within opposition parties. I think you need to look at it from what it is. It is, in my opinion, the best in the circumstances, looking at the level of internet penetration. That’s my simple answer for you. A crime is a crime. I don’t know what aspect of it you are looking at. If you have forged certificates, it’s a crime. And if you have a crime on your neck, whichever way you look at it, you are not entitled to. We can’t put criminals in office. I think the issue is whether it is a pre-election or post-election offence. And I think that in the past, people have committed crime, and maybe the people have not raised it in time. And the law will say that, oh, if it’s a pre-election matter, the election is already taking place. This should have been handled before the election. We cannot go back. I think that’s the issue. But now, they are saying that that has been removed. If nothing is pre-election, any time you commit a crime, you commit a crime. I think that’s in the interest of our legal process.