Bukola Saraki: I’m Not Seeing Results in FG’s Fight against Insecurity

Former President of the Senate, Dr. Abubakar Bukola Saraki, speaking to Arise News Channel, addresses a variety of national concerns and says building a strong PDP takes precedence over individual ambition ahead of the 2023 polls. Dike Onwuamaeze presents the excerpts:

How do you feel about the crisis in the PDP and the cases in court that can scuttle the party’s national convention, after all your efforts to reconcile members of the party?
I am, like most people in our party, pretty satisfied with where we are today. We are about a few days to the convention. We started the process with electing our officers at the ward, local government, state and now we are going to the national convention. We have been able to elect officers in most of the states smoothly with less rancour.

We have problems in a few states even before the national reconciliation committee was set up. We are now going to the convention. Some of the moves we have done so far indicate that we will have a very smooth and successful convention of our party. I think this is different from the other party, where you have parallel congresses all across the country in over 20 states.

But as an opposition party, we have been able to manage our congresses. Yes, there are one or two cases in court but I do not think that changes the commitment of our members to stay united and resolve our differences. There will be differences as a political party but what matters are the leadership and the commitment of its members to find solutions.

As we are going to the convention, we have reached consensus on 21 out of 24 positions. This shows a party that understands the importance of creating a platform that gives an opportunity to provide leadership for this country at this crucial time. By and large, I am satisfied. Of course, there is no perfection of process, but when you compare the options – because elections are about choices – between a party that has been able to carry out congress smoothly and another that has parallel congress in about two-thirds of the states, I think the difference is very, very clear. We have two states that have had problems for over 10 years but we have been able to reach resolutions that were able to bring harmony to those states. It is still work in progress.

I think we are showing the country that despite all the noise about crises, I do not think those crises are there. By and large, I think those of us in the PDP are satisfied even though there are areas for improvements. I think that our concern as a party, as our convention is coming on Saturday, is to be able to showcase a united party and as you know, I chaired the national reconciliation committee that was set up almost a year ago, where we tried to reconcile with some former senate presidents, governors and we went round – state by state and we can see the results of that effort in states like Plateau, Niger, Nassarawa, Ogun and also Borno, where we were able to bring our people together. We have done well and it reflected in what was seen in the state congresses and the coming national convention in the next few days.

Does the PDP have what it takes to wrest power from a ruling party in Nigeria, like the APC did in 2015 and also does your game plan involve zoning?
I am not making a particular reference to Kwara APC. I was talking about nationwide. In fact, the ruling party has not been able to carry out successful conventions in the states as it has parallel congresses in over 20 states. I was making references to my own recollection that I have never seen this happen in the political history of this country going back to 1979 to date. How can a party that cannot provide proper leadership or internal democracy in its affairs provide leadership for the entire country?

Kwara is just one of the many states where that happened. About whether PDP has the resources and commitment to wrest power, first, I tell people that in 2015, the number of states that APC had at that time was almost the same with what we have now in PDP. So the concern that people are decamping or governors are decamping to APC from PDP should not be a matter of great concern. Secondly, in 2015, the APC only had only one state in the South-south but now PDP has five states and governors, who are committed. More importantly, I think that the country is a different place. Election is about choices.

Nigerians have seen what the ruling party has offered and if we go by the statistics from the research we have done, we have more commitment from Nigerians and that, we appreciate, and are doing everything to get our party united. Yes, there are individual differences and ambitions, but we all see the importance to the country. That is why every time it looks like we have a crisis, we always come up with a solution on sensitive issues like zoning and individual ambition. What is important today is that PDP is the only alternative for Nigerians to have an alternative government.

The interest of Nigerians should supersede our individual interest. It should be common in the opposition party for you to have a crisis in every of the states, because we do not have a sitting president, who will whip every person to shape. Despite this, we have been able to resolve issues by consensus; by looking at the bigger issue that it is about Nigeria and convincing Nigerians that we are able to take charge and rescue this country, because this country requires a different direction at this time.

But you were part of the APC leadership a couple of years ago in your position as the Senate President?
That’s why we parted ways. We made promises to Nigerians in 2015 that the economy and security will get better. But a few others and I felt that we did not live up to these promises and we parted ways. I think it takes a lot of character and courage to be able to leave the comfort of the government and say, listen, we have not got this right and I think we need to depart from this at a great expense. So this is not about propaganda. We need to find solutions to a lot of these problems.

People are saying Nigeria is not where they will like it to be today. That is the fact. What we should be talking about are alternatives. We must have a country that is secure. We cannot afford to get it wrong in this next election. PDP is in a better position to provide a better country for Nigerians. We have a court case involving our chairman, Uche Secondus. But you cannot judge an entire party based on a case involving one individual, Uche Secondus. We have managed our ward, local and state governments’ congresses. Did we manage as a party that looks united or one that is having parallel congresses?

It has nothing to do with Uche Secondus. You can say that there are still issues. I can’t doubt you because every political party has issues all over the world. When you bring people with different ideas together, there will be issues. The important thing is, do we look like a party that is forging ahead and resolving its issues and going into a national convention to elect new leaders that can march the party forward to the next election. That is the story of our party. Today, we are not meeting to resolve congresses in over 20 states. We have skirmishes here and there but we have capacity for conflict resolution within our party.

What I am saying is that as a party, we appreciate where the country is and we are determined to give Nigerians a better option. We believe that we have the capacity to do it. What we have all learnt, sadly, is that capacity and ability are big issues in leadership. We must, this time around, talk about how we can ensure that we have the right caliber of people to lead the country at all levels; people who want power to make a difference and who are courageous enough that if they see things going wrong, they will be able to say it and refuse to be part of it. The fact is that the country is not in a good place today and we must try and rescue it and put it back on the right path.

Are you running for the President in the next election and will you defect to another party if you do not get the nomination to contest?
Thank you. But first thing first, what is important now for any PDP member that truly loves the party and cares for Nigeria is that we must build a strong party. One of the reasons why I took up the duty of the national reconciliation committee was because there was concern that the party was losing a lot of steam. Without a strong party, you cannot be talking about individual ambition. It cannot be about ambition without a strong party.

The focus, for me, is for us to build a strong party. We have started our processes with reconciliation and congresses and the final event is the convention. It is after we have done this that we can begin to talk about individual interest. So I think your question is a bit premature. I will answer that question when the time is ready for it. Talking about zoning, it has been made very clear by the party in all our meetings that we have zoned the party offices but it does not preclude anybody that has presidential ambition. What we are looking at in the party is that if anybody wishes to offer himself, let him do so. I think the time we have now requires that we get our best candidate.

The task ahead requires us to focus on leadership and qualities of leadership. But it is not really fair to ask if I will quit the party if I failed to pick the presidential ticket. I ran for President in 2019 and did not get it but I offered myself to be the director-general of Atiku Abubakar Presidential Campaign. I am a team player. Personal ambition is not the issue today. What is important is how to get this country right. We must leave a better country to our children and grandchildren. The world sees Africa as the next frontier for investments and if you should talk about Africa, you should talk about Nigeria. We have a great opportunity to turn things round. I believe that with the right kind of leadership it will not take so long to turn this country around. Also, we need the right kind of followership. We must take an active interest in ensuring that we get it right in 2023.

Isn’t the PDP daunted by the way its elected members in the National Assembly and governors are leaving the party?
No. I do not think that we are hemorrhaging. There were certain governors that we knew that they were going to leave. So we were not surprised when they did. We are having some big weights that are coming into the party. This week, there is a former governor that is rejoining the party. We also know that leaders in the ruling party do not defect early but later in the game as seen in 2015. Keep watching. Nigerians will be surprised when they begin to see defections from the ruling party. I think because others have defected does not mean that I will defect.

You have to look at my antecedents in 2019 and I do not see why that will come up now. I want to emphasise that, honestly, where we are now is not about personal ambition. Where we are now is about how we can work to get this country right. Also, I believe it is not about who emerges as President but about the team he is going to work with. I think leadership is about a recruitment process, where people say they are seeking a job. Do we really scrutinise to ask if they are really suitable for that job? I hope that this time around, we will look at the capacity, because the work ahead requires people who are capable of making this country better.

What did you learn from the ‘Otege’ revolution in Kwara’s election in 2019, of which you were a victim of?
One of the things to learn from that is that elections have to do with sentiments and propaganda, because if you come to Kwara today, and talk to a number of people, they will tell you that they were sold lies and propaganda and made mistakes in following up the issues. One of the things that you also learn from politics is that the electorate, even though they are always right, might go with emotions only to realise later that they have got it wrong. At the end of the day, in Kwara, there was no substance but propaganda.

Immediately we lost the election, I congratulated the other party and told my supporters to give them support. We told our candidate that lost the governorship election not to go beyond the election tribunal. Today, it is the party and the people that are saying we have made mistakes here. What I learnt is that the electorate may feel fatigued and want to try another party after a party has been there for a long time. And sometimes, this decision is made on sentiments. This is what is going on in Kwara as the people themselves have come to realise that this was a huge mistake that was based on propaganda and lies. But the beauty of democracy is that after four years, the electorate has to revisit what they had thought to be a better decision some years ago. If you have been following the politics in Kwara, you must have found out that our people are saying this was a mistake; that they were sold something they would not have bought in the first place.

Are there things you would have done differently as senate president like the relationship between the executive and the legislature as well as legislations like the PIB and the election bill?
I am sorry to say this, I don’t think so. I think we gave our best in the 8th Senate. We provided leadership but some people did not understand the responsibilities that we had or what the constitution said were our responsibilities. There are separations of powers in the constitution and there is bound to be conflict, because the legislature is like a check and balance on the executive. The major issue is how do we work to make the country better? This does not mean I must say yes and at the same time it does not mean that I must be an obstacle to progress.

Some of the decisions that we took were part of the process of democracy. If it was not meant to be checks and balances, then, there is no need to have the legislature. A lot of the things we did despite all the differences were all for the good of the country. We passed bills to provide the right climate for doing business. The PIB was done and completed. It was because of the politics that was going on at that time that it was never signed by the executive; same with the electoral bill that was passed at that time. We played a role I thought the legislature would play. Unfortunately, it was misconstrued in certain quarters that we were being antagonistic.

We all have a role to play in government for the good of the country in line with our constitutional rights. Look at America that we have copied; it is only two senators today that are holding the executive accountable on the issue of the infrastructure bill. It does not mean that those two senators do not love America. Maybe we have come before our time and as our democracy continues to mature, people will understand that we cared much for the country. Time will tell who was right and who was there in the interest of the country. A lot of people said it was the 8th Senate that was not allowing the executive to work. But I hope we have all known better today?

Is your successor running a rubber stamp Senate?
It will not be fair for me to assess him. I have always thought that I should have a channel to get across my views about my successor in office, which I have always done. We all have different ways and styles of leadership. This is all I have to say for now.

Is his style a rubber stamp?
All I know is that his style is different from mine.

Is he a ‘yes man’ to the executive?
What I said is that my style and approach is different from his. Any other thing will be judged by Nigerians.

What is the state of the relationship between your family and the Kwara State government?
I do not think that it will be fair to Kwarans for us to narrow down politics and governance to an issue of two families. The current governor has the opportunity to use his tenure to deliver on his election promises. I don’t think that families will play a role there, else, we will belittle the electorate and the people of Kwara State. So I do not want to go in that direction. I will continue to advise the governor that what is important is for him to use the few months that are left to make things better for the people of the state. Clearly, this is not what is happening now. He should focus on delivering on his electoral promises rather than be distracted by family issues.

What is your perspective on the Anambra election and the prospect of the PDP candidate?
The most important thing is that we must ensure that the election holds and that INEC ensures the electronic transmission of the results of the election. We must ensure that we provide enough security for people to exercise their civic duties. We must encourage the people to cooperate because the democracy we are practicing only allows the people the chance to choose their leaders during elections. It will be very unfair if every citizen of Anambra cannot exercise their right. I also believe that the PDP and our candidate have a very good chance of winning Anambra State.

We have always done very well in Anambra and I believe that we have a very vibrant candidate in the election. It is unfortunate that we did not manage the primary as best as we could have, which would have made it a landslide for us. The bottom line is that the citizens of Anambra are going to look at who is going to provide great opportunities for the people of the state. Who is going to unite the people of Anambra State and bring development? I believe that the PDP and our candidate will do that. But INEC must ensure that we have a free and credible election.

What is your take on the secessionist agitations in the country?
This security problem is a very serious one. I strongly believe that the government has not been able to address it. The approach would have been where every leader or possible stakeholder that has some contribution shall come to the roundtable for us to address this head-on. I have said this repeatedly. Our former rulers, presidents, security experts, traditional rulers and even our foreign partners for us to address this. We cannot deny that this is a serious problem. Secondly, I believe that the agitations you are seeing have to be with a sense of belonging. We must admit that there are parts of this country that feel at the moment that they are not part of this country. They do not feel a sense of belonging. So dialogue, reaching out will play a massive role in giving all of us the assurances. I think the government should do better than that. It is not only security that is the challenge. There are other areas that need to be addressed.

The fact is that this country has never been so divided since the civil war. There is an issue in every part of the country. So we have to ask why. There are some problems that need everybody’s participation to tackle. The problem is a problem for all of us whether the opposition or ruling party. Let us work as a team and find a solution to tackle this head-on. But the way it is being addressed, the problem is getting larger and larger. My view is that the approach the government is using is one of the problems.

The Niger Delta problem was solved through dialogue by all parties under President Musa Yar’Adua. We need to address this issue collectively as a nation. Treating bandits with kid gloves is why we are where we are today. We need to address this collectively as a country, because some of the bandits see the divisions in the country. So we must address this as a united country that is determined to be able to get rid of them. Clearly, I am not seeing results. Efforts are there but I am not seeing the results. It is not a weakness for the government to say that it needs help.

The lives of Nigerians are important and if this help will come from the opposition, so be it, if it will deliver the results. I believe in bringing everybody together to say, how do we tackle this? There are technologies across the world in dealing with kidnapping. So it is very embarrassing that we are still battling with this kind of issue at this stage. We have good people, who are talented and have got the experience in the security system that can contribute their own in solving this problem.

The talk now is diversifying the economy through agriculture. You brought White Zimbabwean farmers to Kwara. How do you feel that your legacy is embroiled in politics?
It is unfortunate and this is why we talk about leadership. But I will correct you by letting you know that there are still some part of the group that came in 2005, who are still doing very well. The poultry arm of the business has done well. It is the second or the best poultry business in the country. But what I want us to learn from that is that, 16 years ago I felt that what we needed was commercial farming.

That is the concept behind bringing the Zimbabwean farmers to Kwara. If you look today, we are beginning to see the emergence of commercial farming. We thank God for that, for I have always said, what we need in farming is not just the small-scale farmers but farmers that have business knowledge, who can develop business plans and manage farming as business and not as social activity. We need big investors to grow agriculture.

NOTE: This interview was conducted before the PDP Convention that held on Saturday –Editor