Former vice president and presidential candidate of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) says his ambition for the number one job in Nigeria is being propelled by a desire to give back to the country that has offered him so much
Why do you want to become the president of Nigeria?
This is a question that is asked quite often by the media. Why do you want to be a governor or president or senator? As you know, if you go through my political journey, it didn’t start today. Of course, it started with the struggle to return this country to democracy from the military. And then subsequently during that struggle, the opportunities to serve one’s country has arisen from one time or the other. But fundamentally, this country has been too good to me. I used to tell young people that if I were to be born today, I might not even be able to go to school. I am from an extremely poor family and an only child, and my parents didn’t want me to go to school. The government of the day made it possible for me to go to school, free. Not only free, but also paid to go to school. From primary up to university level, I was being paid to go to school. And today, I am one of the most successful Nigerians, both in the private sector as well as in the public sector. I thank God for that. At this point in my life, there is nothing I look forward to than to give back what this great country has done for me. Today, I have 28 children and I educated all of them abroad. But I also compelled all of them to return to this country and they are here. What kind of country am I going to leave behind for them? I was lucky I got all what I got. Out of my 28 children, I think only one is working for the government. They are either working for me, in various enterprises or working in some other private sector establishments. So, basically my own reason of wanting to run for president is to give back to the country that has done so much for me and my family.
You have a five-point agenda, one of them is to build an effective resilient, strong, and prosperous economy for Nigeria. There will be three major constraints to doing that. The first one is that Nigeria has one of the lowest revenues to GDP in Africa. Two, we have a debt problem. Then the other issue is subsidy. In the current year, N4 trillion will be spent on subsidy, how do you plan to navigate these challenges?
In the past few days, my team and I have been on a retreat on what I consider a draft policy document. A retreat in the sense that we have invited experts from various fields, including oil and gas, revenue drive, manufacturing, and all aspects of the economic sectors. Sometimes, we spend about four to six hours a day, and this gives us an opportunity to examine our draft policy document with a view to looking into areas where we can either modify or amend based on the submissions of the experts we invite. I remember a few months ago when I received a Republican party delegation from the United States, and I gave them insights into my economic policies. They said I was like Ronald Reagan of their own time. But fundamentally, because I was involved in running the economy between 1999 and 2007, my intention is to continue with some of the programmes that we started during that administration, which gave us the kind of remarkable economic growth between 1999 and 2015. I have a position as far as various subsidies are concerned whether fuel subsidy or power subsidy, or gas subsidy. These are subsidies that I believe we will have to review to make sure that public financing or public funding is reduced to the barest minimum. If you even look at our neighbours who are much poorer than we are, they have done away with all those subsidies. These subsidies constitute a drain on our income in this country. So, these are areas that we can review to make sure that the money that is being spent is reinvested. Now to the issue of revenue. Of course, by the time you look at the subsidies, inevitably, this will enhance your revenue profile and then of course, we also must review the tax net which is currently far below expectation. Many of the African countries, their tax net is much higher than that of our own as a country.
The removal of subsidy looks so easy, but it’s not.
It’s not, I can tell you it is not. This administration has driven our inflation to an unprecedented level because of the way they have managed our scarce foreign exchange, and non-investment in the oil and gas sector.
What would be your major criteria for appointing those who will deliver the content of your vision for the country?
If you follow my performance as vice president between 1999 and 2007, virtually all the key actors in that administration were hired or recruited by me. I recall that towards the beginning of administration, I pointed out to the president (Olusegun Obasanjo) that, ‘Sir, we are politicians, and we need to bring in the best Nigerians we can find and who may be willing to return to the country to help us implement our policies’. Before then, I had brought in a few experts from across the country. Some of them include Prof. Anya O. Anya, Fola Adeola, Bode Agusto, Charles Soludo, and others. And we were meeting for about nine months to develop an economic policy for our government and then after the meeting, I submitted the report to the president. But he said, ‘Mr. Vice President, how do we do this?’ I said, ‘Mr. President, we are politicians, they are technocrats. We will bring them in, and we will give them the political leadership and they will implement our programmes.’ That was how the whole thing started. I believe we have a reservoir of Nigerian experts across the globe, whom we can, even if we don’t entice them with remuneration, bring onboard. By invoking their sense of patriotism, many will gladly agree to serve in government. Some of those guys I mentioned agreed to serve on condition that they would not collect any salary. I remember when I recommended Bode Agusto to be hired as director of budget. He told me how much he was earning compared to what the government offered, and he said he did not want to be paid. So, I look forward to repeating the same experiment to hunt talented young Nigerians from across the globe so that together, we can work and make sure we reverse all the challenges we have been facing in the last seven years or so.
What do you think is wrong with the way our security is managed right now and what exactly do you plan to do differently?
I think it requires political will and leadership. We faced some security challenges during our time. And I think we showed political will and leadership to deal decisively with the security challenges that tried to confront us at that point in time. It is not that we do not have the means, or we don’t have the manpower, or we don’t have the resources, but I think it requires a very strong political will to deal decisively with it. Nobody has been held accountable for security lapses in this country. Nobody! I have not heard or seen anybody. I always give an example. When we were in office, every evening or morning, they will bring the security report. And that security report if you read it, you will see all the crimes that were committed in this country. All the crimes. If I read it, the first thing I do in the morning, I call on the Inspector General to come. I ask, ‘why should this thing happen here?’ So, the political will has to be there, and that requires leadership.
The challenges that we have in Nigeria today have gone beyond what happened during your era from 1999 to 2007. We now have sundry criminal cartels, from Boko Haram to banditry and kidnapping and all kinds. Besides, an economy has developed around the national security crisis that is now tied to our neighbours in the border countries like Cameroon, Chad, Niger.
Our national security has always been tied to our neighbours whether in peacetime or otherwise because you must remember the role Nigeria has played in ECOWAS countries like Sierra Leone, Liberia, and other West African countries. So, our security has always been tied to theirs. If any part is not secure, no part is also secure. But you know, there has been a tremendous decline, as far as Nigeria’s role in ECOWAS is concerned, to the extent that we are now even no longer considered the leader of the sub-regional grouping. And we are talking of Nigeria that is supposed to be the powerhouse of Africa. Even within the West African sub-region, we have lost the leadership. We have. So again, it requires the emergence of a capable and competent leadership to restore the position of Nigeria. First, we must restore the internal security of Nigeria before we can now begin to say, what role are we going to play in the West African sub-region?
You have talked about political will and increasing the number of security personnel and somebody else talked about having more effective relationships. So, what specific things do you plan to do?
First, I will make sure that the entire security architecture is enhanced. Whether it is the police force, the Army or the Navy or the Air Force, we must beef up the strength of these military units. Not only beef them up by numbers, but also in the training and the equipment. We must invest, because whatever we want to become, unless we are secure, we cannot achieve it. That is why security is one of the major pillars of our policy programmes. All these security agencies are under-manned and understaffed, to be honest. So, it is going to be a major policy initiative to increase their numbers, to equip them and to train them. Wherever we’re going to find the resources to do it, we will. Of course, if we increase the number, you also remove so many unemployed people from the streets. So, we must do that to ensure we secure our country and borders. Another issue, of course, that is very, very closely tied to insecurity is the issue of unemployment and poverty, because it is mostly the unemployed that go into crime. And the fastest measure we can take to create jobs is to look at our agriculture that employs more people and of course, the manufacturing sector.
Can we know your position on the clamour for state police, as a solution to the security challenges?
I have always been a proponent of, whatever we call it, whether state police or local police or whatever. Today we are operating a presidential system of government that is very much modelled after the US system. How many levels of police do you have in the US? In many states, you have two, three, four levels of police. And I also recall, even during the First Republic, when we had regions, we also had two levels of police. We had the federal police and we had what they used to call several names, varying from region to region. In the north, they used to call them native authority police, in other parts of the country, I don’t know what they called them. We had two levels of policing in the First Republic. So, I am a believer in decentralisation of the police in our country, there is no doubt about that. If we really want to tackle crime and restore security in the country, then that will require constitutional reform, through legislatures in 36 states. It will take time to achieve. But before that is achieved, I believe increasing the strength of various security agencies, training and equipping them is the most immediate way to tackle the insecurity before we go into constitutional reforms that will take a much longer time.
One of the things that distinguishes the state from non-state actors is that the state owns the monopoly of violence. But in this country today, non-state actors wield the power of violence. Have you considered bringing in foreign mercenaries?
I don’t think I favour the idea of mercenaries. I believe we can deal with this problem, provided we take measures that are necessary to increase the number, training, equipping and welfare of the security agencies. And that is imperative. It is going to be a very temporary measure if you bring in foreign security agencies. I don’t like to use the word mercenaries. They are foreign security operators. This is Nigeria that was securing the whole of West Africa. This is Nigeria that was sending international troops anytime, anywhere. Whether it is the military or the police, anywhere there is a United Nations operation to restore law and order in each country that is in crisis. How come today, we cannot even secure ourselves not to talk of playing the roles that we used to play in West Africa and in other parts of the world? We were not doing that with foreign mercenaries. So, I’m not a supporter of really bringing in mercenaries. It’s a very important, sensitive issue.
When you were vice president, you oversaw privatization. A probe by the senate between 1999 and 2010 found out that of the 122 privatised organisations, more than 80 per cent of them went moribund. Would you say that privatisation has been a successful policy in Nigeria? The second point is on human capacity development. We are talking about public education. ASUU strike is a symptom of the problem. We have not resolved the issue of how to fund public education. What’s your plan?
Let me first disagree with you on the assessment of privatisation. Only yesterday, somebody from the private sector came to discuss with me about privatisation. And according to that discussion, 70 per cent plus of the privatised entities are doing well. Only about 30 per cent are not doing well and if the privatisation exercise is more than 70 per cent successful, I don’t think it is a failure. So, I tend to disagree with you on that. Of course, I still believe that the continuation of that policy on privatising whatever is left that has not been privatised is the best way to dispose of these public enterprises that have not been doing very well over the decades. Let me also go to the issue of public education. When we came into office, we made sure that public education received the attention that it deserved. First, we set up UBE, passed a law that made it compulsory for every Nigerian child to be educated, free of charge from primary to secondary school. And not only that, but we also imposed education tax which they had to pay. But all that money goes to the states and the local governments. None goes to the federal government. So, I believe holding states responsible for not implementing these policies is key. Because I cannot send you money and then you don’t invest in education. This is where we have a problem today because it is entirely the responsibility of the local governments and states. I always give an example of when I went to school. Until I got to the university, I did not even know that there was Northern Nigerian government. It was when I got to the university that I learnt there was Northern Nigerian government, but from my primary to secondary school, it was being funded by my local authority. And there was no oil money, only taxation. I was being given weekly pocket money. I was given a free uniform, free transportation to my village during holidays. Yet, we’re more educated today than we were 50 years ago. Most of our leaders at the time I went to school were no more than grade two teachers, grade three teachers, and they managed our local governments much better and more honestly than the graduates we are having today. I just can’t understand that. What is then the value of the education we have received?
Talking about privatization, the power sector is not working, 10 years after the unbundling. What do you consider the way forward?
It is only an aspect of the power sector that was privatised. And that was I think, the distribution. And that is why we intend, first to make sure that the already installed capacity, which we were able to achieve is transmitted and distributed. This is number one. And then again over the years, we plan to increase even the generation by attracting the private sector into also generation and transmission aspect. So, this is what we propose in our document.
Still on funding of education of public institutions, we need to know how it will be done to bring back what many describe as the glory days. We now have graduates that can’t write a good sentence.
I am one of those who believe that our educational system must be decentralised. About two weeks ago, I was with a professor who asked why I thought handing over the universities would make them better. I told him the first generation of universities were established by the regions. He said yes. I asked him whether he knows of any British government university. I told him that what we needed to do was to ensure that poor students that can’t afford university education are given loans and scholarships. He asked what happens to the universities. I told him it’s up to the states. They can make it campuses of the state universities, or they do with it what they want to do with them. But a situation whereby the federal government should own universities, as far as I am concerned, I don’t believe in it.
But this is a long-term approach, what would be the immediate solutions?
The immediate solution is to ask, how do we fund universities? I run a university and successfully for that matter. After my initial investment, I am not putting any more money into it, and we produce some of the best graduates in this country.
But the fees are not affordable to ordinary Nigerians
That is why there is a scholarship scheme in the university. If you are doing extremely well, you will have a scholarship. There should be a provision for the federal government to give you a loan to fund your education. Very many of you are sending your children to the United Kingdom to school and even the United States. When did you hear that the government of the United States is involved? Most of the states have their universities.
What specific policies do you have on the agricultural sector, especially regarding linkages to the bigger economy.
The agricultural sector over the years has been fluctuating from one administration to the other. It received very good attention during our time and that was why our agricultural productivity rose significantly. I have been in agriculture since 1985. And I have witnessed several fluctuations in policy. There was a time I just couldn’t continue and then after a few years, I came back so I’m still in it. But I think substantially, our agricultural sector has been bedevilled by inconsistency in policy. That’s why sometimes I advocate that if a policy has turned out to do very well, we should have legislation backing the continuation of that policy. Unlike every government when they come, they halt a successful policy and start their own like what the military governors used to do. For sure the agricultural sector is a major sector of our economy that can help enhance growth or reduce unemployment significantly.
Do you have a kind of legislative action plan on the issue of ‘state of origin’ and ‘indigeneship’?
I will say remove ‘indigeneship’ from the constitution. We tried to remove it during the 1994-95 constitutional conference. I was a member. But we had terrible opposition. We came into the constitutional conference in groupings. I belonged to the Shehu Musa Yar’Adua group. And we proposed that ‘look, this indigeneship draft, remove it’. One of the initial provisions of General Ibrahim Babangida’s endless transition decree was that anywhere you live for two years, and you pay tax, you are eligible to make claims in that place. But when he made another transition, that provision disappeared.
You have talked a lot about restructuring the country, but we want to know about the specifics.
It may interest you to know that I have already assembled a team of constitutional lawyers who are drafting for me constitutional amendments as far as restructuring or devolution of powers is concerned. I am very much determined on that score. If elected president, I will.
