Former Secretary to the Delta state Government, Chief Ovuzuorie Macaulay in this interview with Segun James, speaks on salient national issues including the need to decentralise the security architecture of the country for better results.
You are a big player in the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) in Delta State but all of a sudden you left for the All Progressives Congress (APC), why this sudden move?
Ordinarily, I don’t like talking about that aspect of why I left PDP for APC because PDP was like a baby to me and you cannot write the history of PDP in Delta State without my name. I made significant contributions to the growth and development of PDP both at the party level and in government. But you see, life is first about yourself and if you cannot be who you are then you cannot help other persons.
And to be who you are you need your peace. It got to a level where what the PDP used to be and what it is supposed to be turned out to be the opposite in recent times and knowing my background as an activist and also as a journalist, there are certain things other people can tolerate but we can’t tolerate. I cannot see what is black and I will tell you it is white because I’m hungry.
I think people know me for that and I will tell you that is one of the reasons why I couldn’t continue as a member of PDP because the level at which PDP where beginning to come down, my person could no longer accommodate it and I needed my peace.
When rumour takes over the ground when leaders react based on rumour and when people are beginning to be intimidated or people you brought up and mentored are now beginning to be placed on top of you not because you lack what it takes to continue with your position but because somebody wants to bring you down.
Ordinarily, I would have said let me quit politics but then I still believe that my people still need leadership and guidance and some things still need to be done. So, just getting angry that I’m okay and satisfied, of course, today I can live my life but if I live my life will I live the life of my community, nationality and dependants across the state?
So that is why I found a peaceful ground in the APC and since I went there I have my peace. I can sleep with my two eyes closed.
Before the 2023 general election, many thought that as leader of the party you would contest for the senatorial position, why didn’t you contest?
As I said, it is not just about myself. I have told them even in APC that I’m not there to drag leadership but the good thing is that they accord me the respect that I’m entitled to and I’m satisfied with that. I didn’t go there to destabilise what was on the ground or to begin to drag positions.
Senate is not the only place where you can contribute to the development of your state or the nation. There are other grounds and even as I am today I can still contribute through consultation and selling ideas but the important thing is that you are recognised where you are. Being a Senator does not make you a leader in the first place because that is part of what is destroying Nigerian politics and indeed Delta State politics.
Once you pick somebody and make him a councillor, the next day he comes to you and says he is your leader. You pick somebody and sponsor him into the House of Assembly with your popularity and your means, the next day he says he is your leader.
So, being elected into office does not automatically make you a leader. Leadership is what you work for over the years and the people choose you to be their leader not elect you. People must recognise you as a leader; you don’t tell people I’m your leader.
After all, people brought you out to be elected and that doesn’t make you a leader.
With the outcome of the 2023 election in Delta State, do you see APC coming out stronger in the state in the 2027 poll?
Sure. The 2023 election was the first time they gave a very good fight and I don’t want to go into the issues but even the PDP knew that there was a fight. They know they dealt with people who can fight and it was no longer the usual thing of just running them over. So, I believe that if the APC can come together more seriously than it is now, we need to be united and come closer to the people and with that PDP will see a good fight in 2027.
Warri has always been regarded as the economic heartland of Delta but right now there is no business going on in the area, especially the oil and gas business, what has been your effort in trying to bring back business in Warri?
I won’t blame you for asking this question but you remember that when I came into government in 2003, there was almost no Warri. Warri was a shadow of itself because there was no life, not even business as a result of the fight between the Ijaw, Itsekiri and Urhobo, and Warri was grounded.
The curfew in Warri then was 5 pm to 6 am and nothing was working in Warri. All the ports were closed down. All the jetties were closed down. Of course, nightlife was completely out of it and that was why I think in his consideration, my former boss, James Ibori picked me to become the Commissioner for Inter Ethnic Relations and Conflict Resolution. The oil companies and the international oil companies (IOCs) were not operating in the Warri area and all the offshore were closed.
And by the grace of God and the cooperation of the man who appointed me, within a year, I got the conflict resolved and we signed a different Memorandum of Understanding.
For the first time, the IOCs went back to work and it was all through the subject of negotiation and I midwived that negotiation.
So if you say what am I doing if there is anybody who has put his life on the line to bring economic life back to Warri and the environment and indeed this country, is me because the records are there.
Seven years before I came in, the military and the civil government that came in tried everything in 1999 to see how they could resolve the crisis that lingered on for about eight years and they couldn’t resolve it.
Until James Ibori in his wisdom said come and help me manage the Warri crisis. I remembered that was the only brief I got, come and help me manage the Warri crisis.
It was one sentence, a short one for that matter and that was how I relocated to Warri. And in six months, we removed the curfew.
It was like an experiment because I remembered in the Security Council, apart from Dr Uduaghan every other person was against lifting curfew. We did mean to lift the curfew generally but because Christians were never having their crossover night. They do crossover night from 3 pm to 5 pm instead of 10 pm to 12 midnight that is what it was for years.
But that year, I proposed and I stood by that let the Christians observe their night and that nothing will happen. And it was like I had to write an undertaking that this is my decision or opinion and I remembered Dr Uduaghan saying let it be so. It was meant to be for just a few days and that is how we never returned to the curfew till today. That was how the curfew was lifted and the Christians for the first time in almost a decade had what is called the crossover night.
Before then, I remembered when we signed the first MoU between the Ijaw and Itsekiri because Ijaws never crossed into the Itsekiri side and Itsekiris never crossed into the Ijaw side and that day it was a free-for-all all because people who have not seen their loved ones for years, they came together. That is why I said I won’t blame you for asking this question because I know I have put my life on the line for this struggle and I have done everything expected of me.
If I came from some part of this country, I would not be where I am today because I have resolved a crisis which the Obasanjo administration and the military couldn’t resolve. And that is why I believe in the power of negotiation and mediation especially when people are carrying arms because you don’t use arms to fight arms.
You must go through mediation and that worked for us. I freed all the Itsekiri properties and paid compensation and relocated Ijaws who were occupying those properties and paid them. Then the oil companies also negotiated their way back to Warri. This Global Memorandum of Understanding (GMOU) you are hearing today that is where it started and I was the first person to preside over it. The community sits down with the IOCs and the government mediating on what should go to the community and how the IOCs should operate. And that was how they had their peace and they went back to start production and the country’s economy started improving. So, if you say what have I done, I have done everything humanly possible.
Just that over the years most of these oil companies especially the service companies left the Warri area and now the oil companies themselves have left. With people like your area, why is the situation the way it is right now?
Again, government is like an elephant and the elephant has so many parts. You can only operate within the arm the owner allows you to operate. Like I’m here today, if I were from some part of the country, I would be a consultant on so many issues, especially community and conflict issues.
But there was a time when something was happening in the last administration and some leaders were calling me, are they not consulting you on this matter and I said nobody had consulted me.
They said that they were surprised that this kind of thing was happening and I was in the state. I told them that I wouldn’t jump into the issues and I would wait to be called for my opinion on the matter. The issues we are having in Warri today, yes, Warri is relatively a peaceful place today, companies should be able to go there, establish and do well.
But then there is the complete dearth of infrastructures. There are no good roads, of course, the electricity problem is nationwide and things that will attract investors to go back there are lacking.
Don’t forget that people were able to go to secondary schools because there were opportunities in Warri. The port was working, Aladja was working and so when you enter the whole of Enerhen Road, it was all servicing companies. Even as secondary school students during vacations, you can get something to do in those days of three months long holidays. But after the death of Aladja things started going down because most of the servicing companies that were producing materials to service the Delta Steel Company, of course, once the parent body dies, those once died.
Of course, during that period of crisis, a lot of things happened and most of the servicing companies that were employing people went down.
The third factor is the Warri Port. The Warri Port though to the low level of the Escravos Bar, which over the years continued to get worse, today I’m not sure any ship berths at Warri Port.
So, how do you expect life in such a place where no ship is coming, the port is there but it is useless. And successive governments have been playing politics with the dredging of the Escravos Bar. The only government that attempted but couldn’t succeed because of the shortness of that government was President Umaru Musa Yar’Adua.
If you remember, the government launched the dredging of the River Niger at Lokoja but it didn’t go beyond that because we know what happened to the man.
Every year the government will say they want to dredge the Escravos Bar but it ends with statements. So, if you want to revive life in Warri, there are so many things to be put in place. But one of them very vital would be the dredging of the Escravos Bar. And the states must work hand in hand with the federal government.
We are not playing politics of development in this country. Politics of development means that when it is time for election we campaign against ourselves, anywhere your interest is served, you campaign from that angle but as soon as the elections have been concluded, winners have been declared whether you go to court or not, we have to work as one.
We should be able to sit down on a round table irrespective of which party we served and now begin to serve the interest of the people, who voted us whether from party A or party B. It is only in that case that the government of Delta State, which is a PDP-led government should be able to engage the federal government which is an APC-led government to solve some of these problems because they are interwoven and there is no boundary when it comes to issues of development.
The federal government has a role to play and the states have a role to play. Like now, why should Shell relocate from Delta State? Why should Chevron relocate from Delta State? There have been cries to let these companies go back to where they operate but today, the IOCs have played the government to it.
Whether it is the federal or state government, they are now saying that they have given up their onshore operation and they are moving offshore. But they are leaving from somewhere and with the issues of resource control; it means the communities are now cut off. The IOCs are the ones going to make a lot of money from it because they have cut off the communities but this money is not coming to the government. And there is no way the government can monitor what they are doing because when they are onshore the government will not be able to monitor them.
Coming back to your question, we need a collaborative effort to be able to bring about the development of not just Warri but for the Niger Delta. The governments in the Niger Delta must come together to see what they can do for themselves.
Like in those days of old when regional governments were able to have their programme or development, the Niger Delta must work out such a system where there is collaboration. Look, they have the best of everything, if it is electricity, they have the water to produce it. They can construct joint roads, they can have a joint security force and there is a lot they can do together.
They must get the federal government to say what they are doing, what is going to be your share of it, and how you participate because if there is a crisis in the Niger Delta it will affect the whole country.
After all, that is where the money comes from, more than 80 per cent of the country’s revenue is from that region. Right now, you cannot blame any one why the Niger Delta is dying because the north will quickly ask you for all the derivation money you are taking what are you doing with it.
Good question but is it a terrain that can easily be developed? What type of transportation system would Delta State develop itself without bringing Bayelsa even up to Calabar?
What role do you think the NDDC will play in this collaboration you are advocating for?
Until we remove politics from development, it is not going to work because the Niger Delta is primarily a PDP region, and the NDDC is a federal government intervention body. The people representing each of these states in the NDDC don’t report to state governors, they report to Abuja.
Now the states themselves are not engaging Abuja and so they have less control if any over the NDDC. I’m not sure the NDDC budget is drawn based on the requirements from those states. If they were working together, which is what I’m campaigning for, the governors of the Niger Delta should be able to sit with NDDC and say this year this is what we think our money can give us in NDDC. So, if you are taking projects A and B from my budget as a state governor, then I will know that these budgets are with you and I will monitor them with you, then I will divert state money to another aspect of development knowing fully well that these other critical areas are being taken over by you.
I keep asking why the NDDC, an interventionist body be building a six-classroom block, renovating a community hall and putting solar lights on a street. Those are not the job of intervention. Intervention means that you want to do something that I’m not able to do or something that you cannot do alone.
So, we are coming together so that you as a bigger brother can do it for me. But when you do something that even local government should do, and then you have defeated the purpose of your existence.
From do way you talked it seems you are calling for restructuring or regionalisation because what you are saying can only be achieved via regionalisation. Is that what you are calling for?
Let’s leave the more complicated issues, as you are now I don’t need a constitutional right to go into business with you. Nigeria is on as it is today but there are things we can collaborate and do.
The northern governors have been meeting, is it regional? The southern governors have been meeting, the eastern governors are meeting and the south-south governors are meeting, what is more to it. The only thing is that they have not been able to derive the necessary benefits from those meetings.
I don’t know what they are discussing when they meet because they are not discussing their common security or common infrastructure, so what are you discussing? Now each of the zones do have their governors’ meeting and they have the whole country’s governors’ meeting, then they have the southern governors’ meeting and the northern governors’ meeting, which is calling for region again. So, we don’t need to do restructuring before we develop ourselves economically.
What is your opinion on the call for state police?
You have come to the issue of region again but for me, I have always advocated state police. The centre is too far from the locals. In my community today, if we are serious as a community we should be able to know the families that have the thieves.
That is the truth because it is in every community. We know the families where these bad boys come from. So, if you send me to Nasarawa State as a policeman where I know nothing, how am I going to police the place? But if you take me to my area or even Delta State today, I know one or two boys I can call and they know the bad boys.
That is how to manage security. There is every reason to decentralise the security architecture of this country. Either you call it State Police or local government police, after all, they don’t have one centralised policing system overseas.
Because we go and commend them but there is a complete collaboration. If a crime is committed in one spot, all of them are activated and that is why in a place like the UK, you see a policeman on a bicycle, you see the ones on a motorbike and you see the ones with the vehicle, all of them are rushing to the same scene of crime simultaneously but one will get there first. But when it comes to intelligence gathering, you need the locals and people within that area. For me, I won’t just use the word state police, security generally should be decentralised. That does not make the federal government a weakling because they will even have more things to do and do them better than what we have today.
But what a lot of people are saying about state police is that it may be used as a political tool by the governors, what is your take on the argument?
First of all, is the federal government using the national police as a tool? Don’t we have different political parties winning elections in different places? But when you say because of the small size of the states, the one-on-one relationship is there, all we need to do is that the commissioner of police does not need to go to the governor to get his money.
Because when you are talking about restructuring there are fundamental things that are not working well including that of the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC) going to beg the Minister of Finance for money to run elections or go to the federal government to get approval?
There should be a law in place and that law should be able to make it clear that whatever goes to the judiciary, they don’t need to go and beg the governor. Whatever goes to the police, they don’t need to go and beg the governor because that is where compromise comes from. When I carry my plate of breakfast to you to put the omelette and the bread but when I don’t need to come to you before I have my breakfast, there won’t be compromise.
When you create the state police and the source of funding independently like every budget, the Commissioner for Finance or Minister of Finance knows that he must release this money to the relevant organisations and so be it. But once you don’t grant that financial autonomy, then there will be a crisis. So, whichever committee that is working on it should know that the foremost thing in this matter is the mode of recruitment, who does the appointment and who provides the funds. If you take care of these areas then we will move forward but if you subject recruitment, financing and appointing head to the governor’s approval, you will run into problems.
What is your assessment of President Bola Tinubu in the last eight months?
I know the whole country is tensed up and nobody is happy with the way things are but then we must not lose our sense of history.
I have always given examples that even this place we are having this interview, some years ago it was not like this and to bring it to this level it was destroyed and almost 80 per cent of it was broken down and rebuilt again. During that period, people were inconvenienced but it is a sacrifice we all need to make. This government is nine months old; let us give this government one or two years to see what they can do.
And you know that these naira issues and insecurity were already there before this government. I will ask the economic team to sit tight and galvanise all opinions across party politics and anybody who can give us an answer should be allowed to give us an answer. But I also feel that it is too early to begin to call for a change of government and to begin to organize protests everywhere because that will not give us the answer.
We need collaboration now. The good thing about democracy is that the fact that you are in Party B does not stop you from giving ideas to Party A. So, if Peter Obi and Atiku Abubakar have better ideas let them sit down with Tinubu and offer their ideas because Nigeria belongs to all of us. Calling for military rule like some people have said, for me, is the worst thing anybody could call for because we can’t go backwards. Organizing protests every day is even bad because those protests would not give us the results.
For anything that doesn’t give you value, you don’t need to take it. So, this protest will not take us anywhere instead, let us begin to sit down and talk.
